Cmc

[Leopard]

Now finally we will have Campaign support for CM, at least for CMBB.

Combat Mission Campains Website (http://www.battlefront.com/products/cmc/overview.html)

Nice idea, don't you think?

[KG_Panzerschreck]

Yes man, it will be quite nice when it comes out.

The annoucement of it now, closely on the heels of the info release on CMSF, was definitely done done to placate those of us that were less than thrilled with the setting for CMSF. anyone belive otherwise is fooling themselves. its all damage control.

[KG_Cloghaun]

I'm at work right now and ever since I saw the announcemnet last night I haven't been able to concentrate on anything but CMC. Can anyone possibly put this into perspective as to what it will mean for us?


Q: What campaigns will come with CMC?
A: Right now we are planning to include campaigns covering the following: Barbarossa, Stalingrad, Operation Mars, 3rd Kharkov, Kursk and Berlin.


Finally, we will be able to properly implement KG_Kharkov's MP rules. Imagine applying the nuances of "limited communication" for example.

You'll also note (for us ex-Close Combat players) that we can now get up close and personal with our forces, with keeping track of experience gained and MEDALS!!

Then think of what user-made campaigns people are already day-dreaming about making. Command the Grossdeutschland at Targul Frumos, recreate the Courland Pocket or Bagration.

I have to stop thinking about this, it's all too much.:bounce: :elefant: :marchmell

[KG_Jag]

On the FAQs they say that the tactical battles using CMBB will be one on one only.

However, I believe (but still have a small amount of doubt/concern) that we already have the tools to play any CMBB game file in a MP format. The one thing that could throw a monkey wrench into our MP flexibility is if CMC produces a new type of CMBB scenario/saved game file that prevents us from taking the steps necessary for a running a MP game. In any case I'm sure that Thor can work around and with whatever CMBB "tactical" file that is presented, so we can play it in MP.

Another thought--it appears that the campaign game will generate only battle files. It would be most interesting if it could generate an ops file as well. Since HTS/BF are still in early beta, we may want to ask them about it. Even if such a feature can't be added at release, maybe it could appear in a patch and/or in the CMAK version, which will certainly be coming if the first edition sells at all.

[KG_Panzerschreck]

Then think of what user-made campaigns people are already day-dreaming about making.

I already know whats #1 on my list. Kurland Pocket battles # 1,2,3,4,5.

[KG_Panzerschreck]

On the FAQs they say that the tactical battles using CMBB will be one on one only.

Why couldnt we save the game between seperate plots like we do now?

Or if that doesnt work go into CMBB and make a game to the same exact specifics as the one generated by CMC and go from there. yeah it would be a pain in the arse but it could be done. especially if the map could be transfered out of the quick battles folder.

[KG_Jag]

I don't know because I don't know if CMC will change the format of the tactical battle files (probably = CMBB battle or saved game files). Because I don't know, I asked the question at the BF forum. We'll see what "Hunter" and/or BF say.

[KG_Cloghaun]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not seeing the bigger picture here-

We'll play the Campaign in multiplayer fashion. We'll play the battles one vs one. Much like we are doing now in Thor's Mega-Campaign. This way we'll have bigger Kampfgruppes' on the strategic map.

"Kampfgruppe Jag (Bill will play the entire on-map forces) having defeated Russian BG on map grid 7B will move to map grid 7C to assist Kampfgruppe SSpoom".

We can email each other files to show how our force is doing to the overall Kommandir or whatever.

That's my initial thought as to how we would play it anyway. Just my two-cents.:dontknow: :hello:

[KG_Jag]

Frank I think that I have the big picture--at least so much as we've been allowed to see.

In light of the fact that in CMC we are dealing with forces on each side of as large as a division, MP battles might well be the preference. Let's say each of us commands a regiment in the Campaign part of the game. As the result of orders by GK Koz and his opposite RK Kharkov (now how could that ever happen?!!), the bulk of our two German regiments smash into three Russian regiments commanded by Thor, Schreck and Crimson. Assuming that such a battle could be generated, it would look alot like our current lost victories campaign--except maybe bigger! Each of the five of us commands the troops of his respective regiment in that hours battle (I believe that the base time is an hour but the actual battles could be shorter). That gives unity of command throughout the gaming system. It also makes the end more fun because you have been commanding your troops from start to fininsh. Just think of the medal bar and the promotions!

[KG_ThorsHammer]

I want going to think about all this since its a few months off, but I cant help it!!!!

I love that close combat analogy, alwyas liked keeping track of unit stats/medals. The campaign system sounds pretty flexible; I think we can do the multiplayer option both ways. Sounds like they have pretty much put in most of the features I and other designers have tried to simulate; I'm very excited

[KG_Panzerschreck]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not seeing the bigger picture here-

We'll play the Campaign in multiplayer fashion. We'll play the battles one vs one. Much like we are doing now in Thor's Mega-Campaign. This way we'll have bigger Kampfgruppes' on the strategic map.

"Kampfgruppe Jag (Bill will play the entire on-map forces) having defeated Russian BG on map grid 7B will move to map grid 7C to assist Kampfgruppe SSpoom".

We can email each other files to show how our force is doing to the overall Kommandir or whatever.

That's my initial thought as to how we would play it anyway. Just my two-cents.:dontknow: :hello:

I understand that part of it completely Franky. but what im talking about is a mini-campaign like the "Lost Victories Campaign". with only 3 maps. why couldnt you do small ones too? and break up the turn in parts like we do now? if possible, it would be great to still be able to play the small ones instead of being tied down with camps that will take years to finish. thats the point i was trying to make.

[KG_Jag]

There is now an unoffical FAQ thread on CMC at Battlefront. You can find it here:

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=53;t=000071

[KG_Panzerschreck]

Thanks for the link Bill.

[KG_Jag]

Update on CMC posted today over at Battlefront:

Posted by Hunter (Member # 230) on November 06, 2005 02:24 AM:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Dan Dare:
will this be taken into account? let´s say that after 3 successful battles my regular pz grenadiers become veterans, is this possible?(hope so, because they for sure will become tired, so they need something to balance).

next, if my batallion commander was kia, do i have the option to promote on spot one of my co commanders? (and so on trought the ranks).

also, if i can save an OoB, will it be possible to save after one campain?, and then to be used for another? (i´m thinking on a kampfgruppe acting as a fire brigade without much time to rest and with just minor reinforcements to their damaged structure)

and the last one, could i update individual units equipment? (changing those old pzIVe into pzIVf when they become available will improve my panzer btln even if i just change 1 per co)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Yes, units can gain experience by being in battle and killing enemy units.

2. Not sure. Still working on this.

3. Yes, that's the plan. But there is no automated meta-campaign feature. So you would need to add the reinforcements and so on in the editor by hand.

4. No. Not in a campaign, only in the editor.

[KG_Jag]

Another update posted at the Battlefront forum:

"Posted by scottie (Member # 15831) on November 14, 2005 08:07 AM:

I had a wee search for threads on tactical reserve and couldnt find any.

Im just curious to know how its going to work.

1. does a tactical reserve need to be in an ajacent square or can armour be further away than foot infantry due to mobility ?

2. at what point do reserves join a tactical battle ? are they called on request ? do they just appear ?

3. is there a delay in receving the reserve based on how far away they are ? i.e ajacent square etc and movement speed ?

4. if i surround an enemy ME and place all units in tactical reserve apart from the attacking force can i pound a position until all my forces are spent ? (i guess this depends on battle lenght too).

5. can i bring all reserves in together or is there a unit total in a battle ?

Many thanks for any information.
Scott

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Posted by Hunter (Member # 230) on November 15, 2005 06:14 PM:

1. It can be up to 5km away (settable by player for each order)

2. They get a request from one of the potentially numerous supported units. The request is sent immediately upon contact, takes transmission time to get to the reserve unit, and they then move immediately. After they travel the required distance, they enter the square, as reinforcements if the battle is still going.

The request is only sent if the contact is between two 'force odds ratios', set by the player. For example, the MIN ratio could be set to 1 (meaning don't come to my assistance if somebody weaker than me attacks) and the MAX ratio to 10 (meaning if they are stronger than me, up to 10 times stronger, come to my assistance). Any more than 10x stronger may mean the reserve unit er, loses, the message.

3. Based on the transmission time of the signal plus movement speed (fast movement or travel speed).

4. Should work, yes.

5. You can bring all reserves in together, although CMBB has a limit to the number of units in battle.

Hunter"

[KG_Jag]

Here's the latest on the status of CMC, as reported on the Battlefront forum:


"Hunter
Moderator
Member # 230

posted January 20, 2006 05:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are delivering a new beta to the beta testers shortly. That testing will tell us more about how much work there is to do."

[KG_Jag]

Here's the latest from the Battlefront forum. Apparently some problems have been encountered with the beta:

"Posted by WineCape (Member # 2888) on February 22, 2006 05:50 AM:

Glitches have been found in Beta. More testing needed."

[KG_Jag]

Hot from the Battlefront blog (a new feature over there):

Location: Blogs (http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Blogfront/tabid/55/Default.aspx)http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/desktopmodules/Blog/Images/folder_closed.gifBlogfront (http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Blogfront/tabid/55/BlogID/2/Default.aspx) http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/images/print.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:__doPostBack('dnn$ctr396$MainView$ViewEntry$cmdPr int',''))Posted by: Battlefront .com 6/29/2006

I just spoke with Bruce Poon from Hunting Tank Software today about Combat Mission Campaigns. The guy is insane, you know, trying to create this monster game. His place in the CM Hall of Fame is secure already, just for being insane enough to try, and even more insane to really be determined to finish it, too :-)

After a problematic last year when a member of the core team left and therefore a serious setback to the schedule, things are moving forward very smooth these days. Many, many bug-fixes are being applied, and a few huge steps have been made in the inter-communication between the CMC application and CMBB thanks to a few additional lines of code from Charles. We now have FOs appearing and planes as well. Graphics are getting an additional boost by the addition of none else but Marco Bergman to the team, doing his usual magic with the countless unit graphics.

As we’re nearing the next milestone with big steps, expect more news soon… and perhaps I’ll convince Bruce to start a blog himself, too, eventually :-)

Moon

[Palantir]

Anyone have an update on CMC?

[KG_Jag]

The latest word of which I am aware is now 2 1/2 months old. At that time they were working with a "new Beta." Here's the Battlefront forum page on which the comment by RobDesko appear:

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=53;t=000001 (http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=53;t=000001)

[Palantir]

ACCCKKK! Are you nuts?
You mean you want me to actually return to the BFC Forum!!!

Why I've never heard of such a request being asked of a warrior-gentleman from a warrior-gentleman! (Especially after some of the past emails I sent to the management over there. I'm probably high on their blackball censored list....) Why do you think I asked for an update here?

I'm sort of like the guy who buys adult magazines "just" for their articles; I'll play their game but I don't have to visit their site. (BTW- I didn't say I buy them, I said like the guys... HA!)

[KG_Jag]

Kerry--you can go there in your trench coat and fedora; just don't post!

[KG_Jag]

Here's Part I (it's too big to put in just one post)
of Sunday's word from the Battlefront blog:

http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Blogfront/tabid/55/EntryID/71/Default.aspx



Combat Mission Campaigns
http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/images/min.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:__doPostBack('dnn$ctr396$dnnVISIBILITY$cmdVisibil ity',''))http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/Containers/tainer/spacer.gifhttp://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/Containers/tainer/spacer.gifLocation: Blogs (http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Blogfront/tabid/55/Default.aspx)http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/desktopmodules/Blog/Images/folder_closed.gifBlogfront (http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Blogfront/tabid/55/BlogID/2/Default.aspx) http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/images/print.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:__doPostBack('dnn$ctr396$MainView$ViewEntry$cmdPr int',''))Posted by: Battlefront .com2/18/2007

Some people are saying that CMC is dead. It’s not. It’s just breathing very slowly http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/_default/Smileys/wink.gif

The development under Bruce Poon had to endure a number of setbacks in the past years (!) with key personnel becoming unavailable for one reason or another as real life mercilessly interfered with the development schedule. It is, no doubt, the curse of an independent team, self-funded and therefore prone to this kind of unexpected development. CMC as a project had more than its fair share unfortunately and has been extremely unlucky in this regard.

But, it is not dead. We know that there is a decent community of Combat Mission players out there for whom this is the dream game, and so we have been encouraging and – where possible – supporting the team morally and practically, to continue.

Today I’d like to show some of the advances which were recently made with CMC as a proof that development continues, albeit slowly.
I have taken a series of screenshots from the previous beta. I say previous because the team has just released a new version a few days ago. The screens are meant to highlight some of the interface and features in the game but are not telling any particular “story line”.
http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-1.jpg (http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-1.jpg)
This screenshot shows the opening scene from one of the current test scenarios. You see the 3D game map in the middle, which really is nothing else than a whole bunch of individual CMBB maps “glued” together. The flags denote objectives, currently in Russian possession.
The GUI shows the current victory levels on the left, the main command & info panel in the middle (currently set to Commands) and the turn/replay indicator on the right. The latter works more or less like in CMBB, meaning that CMC is WeGo based.
http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-2.jpg (http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-2.jpg)
Same screen, this time with a unit selected, namely the 45mm Anti-tank Gun section. The general victory screen is replaced with a unit info window on the left, listing various important data about the selected unit at a glance.
http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-3.jpg (http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-3.jpg)
This screen shows a sample Move order, issued to another unit (3rd Platoon, 2nd Company). The blue line indicates the start and end points for the movement, while the green light indicates the actual path that the unit will take. Move is a tactical command, meaning that units move in tactical formation, ready for combat. The unit deviates from the straight path to use the easiest terrain, especially the bridges! There is a fairly long ETA for arrival (shown in black near the end point as 196 minutes; or translated into 60 minute turns, 3 turns plus 16 minutes). If you’d want to have the unit move quicker, the correct command would be Travel. It’s much quicker, but as one can imagine, it’s not a good thing to be travelling when you run into an enemy ambush.
http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-4.jpg (http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-4.jpg)
Here we have the 82mm Mortar Section of the battalion selected, and we issue a Tactical Reserve command. This will have the mortar unit move to support units within this area if they are attacked (and the attackers meet the parameters set). There is a similar command to provide support fire should they be engaged in a battle; and they will receive off-map artillery during the CMBB battle.
http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-5.jpg (http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-5.jpg)

[KG_Jag]

This screen shows a completed Tactical Reserve command. The icon indicates the units that the mortar team will move to support.

http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-6.jpg (http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-6.jpg)

This screen shows 2nd Platoon, 2nd Company selected, tracing a yellow command line back to its parent HQ (which would be 2nd Company HQ). The Comms panel shows which types of communication are available to the selected unit. Each type of communication comes with a specific time delay for relaying orders (from HQ aka the player to the unit) and reports (from the unit back to the HQ, e.g. about spotted enemy troops). As you can see, a whole bunch of options is available, from radio to land wire to runners and messengers on horse or in vehicles. Keeping an effective Command & Control network will be crucial for CMC operations.

http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-7.jpg (http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-7.jpg)

The screen shows the Transport panel for 3rd Platoon, 1st Company. The Transport panel lists the means of transportation available to the selected unit. As you can see, 3rd Platoon are grunts on foot without any organic motorized or mechanized capability. Their move and transport travel speeds are affected by the kinds of terrain they are moving over, weather, ground condition and a host of other factors.

http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-8.jpg (http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-8.jpg)

This screen shows the OOB panel, listing all units under the command of the player in detail. This gives enough detail to understand what troops will appear in CMBB during a battle. There is a bug showing in this panel to do with move speeds, now fixed!

http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-9.jpg (http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-9.jpg)

This screenshot shows the weather information for the current battle. Weather can change during an ongoing operation for each hour. This also can have an impact on the ground conditions on the map, which can turn e.g. to mud after several hours of strong rain.

http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-10.jpg (http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-10.jpg)

Here you can see the Terrain info panel. It shows the current terrain the selected unit is in, and also some information about adjacent terrain and exits from the square. Note the stone bridge we need to move over, and why the move command goes over it rather than straight ahead.

http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-11.jpg (http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-11.jpg)

The Victory screen, showing you the final score after the campaign, or the current score during the campaign. You can also take a screenshot from the screen with the click of a button.

http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-12.jpg (http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/CMC/cmcUntitled-12.jpg)

A recent addition to the game is air power, determining which side has air superiority, and the level of air support that they will have available. Air assets can interdict battles, and also greatly affect resupply.

Moon